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Transmute Rock to Mud vs Coral Elves

 
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shepdog69
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:10 am GMT    Post subject: Transmute Rock to Mud vs Coral Elves Reply with quote

Transmute Rock to Mud spell states: "Target any enemy army. Subtract six maneuver results from the target army until the beginning of your next turn."

Coral elves can count maneuvers as saves at a Coastland.

If Coral Elves are under the effect of the spell, would maneuvers rolled during a save roll be affected by the spell (and therefore reduced) prior to being counted as saves, or, since they are counted as saves, be immune to the effect of the spell? I know that for Fly, results would be immune, since they are chosen to be maneuvers or saves s desired.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:54 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all in the order of the modifiers.
Quote:
How to apply die modifiers when calculating roll results
When more than one modifier is in effect, apply them in the following order:
1. Modifiers that subtract
Results can never be negative; if a result would be reduced to below 0 it is set to 0 instead.
2. Modifiers that divide (Apply Terrain and Racial below in their specific step)
Results are rounded down.
3. Modifiers that multiply (Apply Terrain and Racial below in their specific step)
4. Results generated by SAIs
5. Terrain effects
Apply minor then major terrain effects.
6. Racial abilities
7. Count As effects
8. Modifiers that add

You always apply all modifiers. So for example, if a Transmute Rock to Mud is cast on an army, and it is rolling for melee, subtracting from the maneuver results doesn't mean anything, since those results are not used. So it's ignored. On the other hand, the Coral Elves saving from that melee attack would have to subtract 6 maneuver results at step 1, and then at step 7, they would take all remaining maneuver results and count them as save results. And the Wind Walk on the Coral Elves would do nothing, because it's added in at step 8.

Pay close attention to the order of the modifiers, and realize that all results on every roll is modified by any spells or other effects, even if that result is not part of your primary reason for rolling.
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shepdog69
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:56 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my question really came down to when the maneuvers become saves, but that was the wrong question. The racial ability states "When at a coastland terrain Coral Elves may count maneuver results as if they were save results. ". It never says that the maneuvers "become" saves, just that they "may count" them as saves, and since the Transmute spell affects that count, it would still apply.

Thanks!
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