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Jace Thomas
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:37 am GMT    Post subject: Hello! Reply with quote

My name is Jace, and I decided that this sub forum was as good as any to make my introduction post Wink

I've never actually played any Dragon Diceā„¢, and I only own one (1!) solitary die, but that will change soon! As a matter of fact, I had never even heard of Dragon Diceā„¢ until about late January / early February, when my friend and I were visiting a local used bookstore and she pointed out a fantastical looking book amidst a sea of murder mysteries with a hole punched in it where a die was supposed to be. It looked interesting to me, but I decided not to get it if it wasn't going to have any goodies. Neutral

But wouldn't you know it, I found another copy of the same book, and this one actually had the TSR Dragonslayer included! At first I thought that the die was just a little gimmick to get the book to sell, like those "books" in elementary school book fairs that come with some small trinket, but I was quite surprised to find out that it actually belonged to a collectible dice game!

Of course, I went straight to the interwebs to find information on this phenomenon. Heck, I didn't even know that there were such things as collectible dice games, and the idea just sort of had a nice ring to it. I mean, everyone's heard of Magic: The Gathering, and Pokemon TCG, but I don't know, collectible card games just aren't right for me. They just keep pumping out set after set, and then you drain every last paycheck to collect 1 billion cards, which then proceed to sit in some binder or peechee that collects dust in your back closet.

I live in a "city" by the name of Centralia, WA, and I use the term "city" loosely because we don't really have.. anything.. to do over here. I don't know if it's the poorness of the economy or what, but there just isn't much around to do for fun, especially not in the way of collectible game battling. We basically have a movie theater, library, the biggest skate park on the west coast, the 7th largest Wal-Mart in the nation, and two thrift stores. We don't have any game stores nearby at all, which means that if you want to even browse, you're looking at a 3 hour drive minimum. Suffice it to say, nobody really has any unique hobbies.

Which is why I got so psyched when I started reading the website and the forum (which I've been following since February), and started to think about how amazingly fun Dragon Diceā„¢ sounds like it would be to collect and play. I especially love how the dice element gives the game such a random element, no longer will the kid who can afford to buy a 10000 booster packs a month win every single tournament - it's up to lady luck and just enough strategy to make you feel like you're actually in command of an army Smile

Anyways, I got enough money saved up a couple of weeks ago to make a sizable order on 4/16, which has been since upgraded to "packing order" on 4/22, and I'm expecting it to be sent out any day! I'm so excited that I cannot leave the edge of my seat, quite frankly. When it does arrive, I am going to reserve a portion of the starters I ordered for my friend and I, and we will use those to get used to the game.

Then, as I was thinking about how great it would be if Dragon Diceā„¢ took off in my area, how fun and exciting it would be to have many an adventure with more people, I hatched a plan. I live within very close walking distance from Centralia Community College, a respectable community college that many students, young and old alike (but mostly teenagers and twenty-somethings) from all across the county and beyond commute to every single day. Many of my acquaintances are currently attending classes, and I myself am a recent alumni. I figure if my friend and I go on down to a busy part of campus and play Dragon Diceā„¢, we will certainly attract attention with their wonderful aesthetic appeal. Then I shall bust out the demo kit I ordered and proceed to demo! I'm sure at least some people will be excited enough to warrant a purchase of one of my extra starters, and come back to play some more. Then wonderful word-of-mouth will set in, and who knows, perhaps a small Dragon Diceā„¢ community will have formed? One can only hope.

Holy tl;dr Batman! It looks like some of my musings have transformed this introductory post into an introductory speech Wink I hope that none of you have gotten any sort of neck cramp from falling asleep in your chairs!
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:43 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I love your post. We have been trying to get a rep program setup for some time. It just never seems to get the right person to run it. But you are off to a great start at being a local rep for us! Let us know how we can help.

If you ever make it to GenCon, look us up we have a booth there....
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First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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Jace Thomas
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:50 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I am humbled by your expedient response Mr. Pint Shocked

As for GenCon, as much as I would love to enjoy the sights and sounds of such a wonderful bazaar, my oppressive work schedule prevents me from straying very far at all Confused

However, if there is any way I might be able to help support Dragon Diceā„¢ by representing it in our community, I would be absolutely honored. It would be wonderful to see such a great concept of a game take off, and I believe that the only thing getting in the way of that is simply general ignorance. I do not exactly know what I can do or how I could be of use for you, but if you have any input for me whatsoever in that regard, I will graciously accept it!
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:04 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a feeling your order will move from packing to shipped very shortly... Just call it a feeling
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dproman
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:48 am GMT    Post subject: Hello! Reply with quote

Jace,

Welcome to the wonderful of Esfah (DD)! Very Happy I am the local rep for the Vancouver WA. area. I'd like to help you any way I can. I am currently trying to create interest in my town as well. We just had a very successful run at GameStorm 11 in March and I'd like to keep things going strong! Please let me know if there is anything that I can do, demoing/teaching/training, whatever.

Again, Welcome aboard! Very Happy
Thank You for your time,
Dave
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Jace Thomas
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:57 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
I have a feeling your order will move from packing to shipped very shortly... Just call it a feeling


Wow, psychic abilities?! Shocked

Dproman - Well, thank you for the welcome! It's good to hear that there is a Dragon Diceā„¢ community so close! Well, closer than New York at least Wink

Actually, I have a friend in Portland, OR that I sometimes visit once in a blue moon, so a stop by might not be completely out of the picture! Unfortunately, I can't say when that may be, especially because of my restrictive work hours (I work graveyard shift). I'm trying to shift to a better department, but won't be able to until at least August, so.. Confused

I do know that I wouldn't mind (and this goes for everybody!) some tips on how to demo, teach, and otherwise present this masterpiece of a game to the general public. I have a copy of the demo rules, and also http://www.sfr-inc.com/demoing101.htm , both of which are fine resources and I will do what I can with them. It would be all the more reassuring to get real input in addition to that, or even just to hear about others' experiences, so that I may then learn Smile
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:33 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jace Thomas wrote:
cliffwiggs wrote:
I have a feeling your order will move from packing to shipped very shortly... Just call it a feeling


Wow, psychic abilities?! Shocked
I predict that your order moved from a big cardboard box into a smaller cardboard box and is just waiting someone to put stamps on it...

Quote:

I do know that I wouldn't mind (and this goes for everybody!) some tips on how to demo, teach, and otherwise present this masterpiece of a game to the general public.


My biggest advice is to listen to the body language of the person you are demo-ing too. I've seen many people who just put their head down and go into a pre-recorded demo that might take an hour to complete. Now at Gencon I've been known to say the same thing over and over and over and over, but thats because I do... 4-5 demo's an hour and my audience usually wants the 5-10 minute version.

Some people like the colors, some people like the 'story', some people like the 'math'. some like strategy, some like tactics, some just like randomness. with experience you will learn to recognize this and can change your demo mid-stream.
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:39 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

And some people just say "pretty dice". No demo needed, just sell them one of everything.... Very Happy
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:44 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
And some people just say "pretty dice". No demo needed, just sell them one of everything.... Very Happy
True, I've sold some of those...
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Jace Thomas
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:49 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
I predict that your order moved from a big cardboard box into a smaller cardboard box and is just waiting someone to put stamps on it...


Whoa, that is a pretty razor-sharp prediction there, Cliff! You say you saw boxes? That's more than just a 'feeling', that's nothing short of oracle-ticity.

Speaking of divination, it might be fun to adapt Dragon Diceā„¢ to tarot or something, where different faces of a Dragon represent.. something.

...

cliffwiggs wrote:
My biggest advice is to listen to the body language of the person you are demo-ing too. I've seen many people who just put their head down and go into a pre-recorded demo that might take an hour to complete. Now at Gencon I've been known to say the same thing over and over and over and over, but thats because I do... 4-5 demo's an hour and my audience usually wants the 5-10 minute version.

Some people like the colors, some people like the 'story', some people like the 'math'. some like strategy, some like tactics, some just like randomness. with experience you will learn to recognize this and can change your demo mid-stream.


Hey, that's some pretty solid advice! I think I know what you mean by that, all I need now is some experience, but that will come. Argh, I keep getting ahead of myself thinking I'm all ready to do demos, and I don't even have any dice Laughing

Just wondering - have you ever done any demos with more than one person at once? I know if there was, say, a couple or two friends they would likely have similar personalities, but how might I go about glorifying Dragon Diceā„¢ to a small group?

chuckpint wrote:
And some people just say "pretty dice". No demo needed, just sell them one of everything.... Laughing


Heheh, I can totally relate to that Twisted Evil I'd be very interested to find somebody of that type, because that might reveal some sort of 'stocking potential' - and by 'stocking' I mean "Who wouldn't be excited to wake up on a bright Christmas morn with their stocking stuffed to the brim with pretty dice?" and then people buy each other dice for halloween, valentine's day, etc. Wink
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chuckpint
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:14 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's how I do it:

If there is just one person, then of course you "play" against them. We usually "rig" up the dice so you'll lose. Then they really get a good feeling about the game. You can ask Steve, our champion "loser". Mr. Green

If there are two people, the easiest, is to let them play each other. After you show the mechanics of the game to them, tell them their choices at each point. Most times if they ask what they should do, tell them. But if they want to go on their own, let them do that as well.

When it's three or more, it gets tough if you are by yourself. I don't recommend a multi-player game. Pair them off, and take on the odd person if needed. Show the mechanics to everyone as a group. Then run it like the two above, but just realize that it will go slower. Sometimes people will just have to wait their turn. Try and spread yourself evenly, don't let one person or one game take up most of your time. I highly recommend that you have everyone actually playing. There is just something about picking up the dice themselves and rolling them that tends to hook people.

Other people have slightly different styles when demoing. But the key points: let them roll the dice for themselves, and let them decide what to do as much as possible. Try and hold back the long explanations, but some hard-core gamers, will ask. Go for it if you have time, and it's what they want. Of course at GenCon, we tell them about the Novice Tournaments, and ask them to sign up. If you have a regular gaming group, invite them to join at your next meeting.
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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dproman
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:34 am GMT    Post subject: Hello! Reply with quote

Jace,

Everything Cliff says is correct! Very Happy

Prior to the GameStorm convention, I had never demoed the game before, but by the time the weekend event was over I had successfully demoed the game at least 10 times! I believe 5 people bought starters packs, 1 guy wouldn't leave until I sold him some of my extra dice! Laughing Many of the demos had more than 1 person. My first demo, I had 4 people show up (talk about a trial by fire Shocked ). I made it work pretty well, everyone enjoyed the game! I didn't experience any "bored" demos but I did learn quickly what the "key" points to game were and streamlined the presentation down to about the 5-10 minute mark. I let the appeal of the game do the rest!

Speaking of Steve, he was instrumental in my education on "rigging" the demos. He also had a DD flyer available (from his website) that I used as a "cue" card to keep me on track and to keep it simple.

PM me or call me to set up time if you want to get together. I don't mind the drive, or we can meet half way somewhere along I-5.

Talk to ya later,
Dave
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:05 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

heya Jace Thomas,

I remember a Dragon Diceā„¢ genCon convention years ago...
Sean Reynolds had a breifcase filled with medallions...
I think you havd to buy 3 kickers to get one...or something like that...anyways...besides the breifcase...there was the counter where you first enter the Dragon Diceā„¢ area..
various dice were just sitting there...
just waiting for someone to pick one up and examine it...roll it...and even keep it. (I kept a Wizard, Very Happy this one was painted really well...I had a few that were over tumbled or something, probably the first runs...so I was quite surprised to see one that was nearly perfect )

So I suggest just leaving a few dice out...for the taking.
Free stuff.
mabe use some of the demo dice for freebies.
Sounds a little strange to think about giving away dice...since you only have one right now... Laughing
but people like free things...
I gave a die away after every demo at Gen Con last year.....and to be honest...people smiled and I could tell they were happy.
Like they won something.
And let them choose which one...
this one Girl took an AndroShpinx after winning the demo..and she looked liked she really liked it...
like it was one of the special dice.
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piMaster
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:30 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jace,

Since you'll soon have a mountain of dice to keep track of, might I recommend you use DD Inventory to keep track of them. It is an inventory program I wrote that keeps track of your collection of Dragon Diceā„¢ (among other things). See this thread to get the latest version: http://sfr-inc.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2079

Welcome aboard!
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:50 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:
We usually "rig" up the dice so you'll lose. Then they really get a good feeling about the game.
I agree with everything that people have said, but I'll just add to be careful with this one. You have to watch your demo-ee. Most people like to win, but there are some who can tell you are losing on purpose and they will hate it. The young male hard-core gamer won't mind getting beat if he can see a dragon chomp him for 36 damage. Wink

Quote:
Try and hold back the long explanations, but some hard-core gamers, will ask.
YES! you are not reading them the rulebook, just give them the common rule of thumb and don't go into the why's or exceptions etc. They can do that after they've started playing.

Also Jim is correct. At Gencon I try to give everyone a free common (you'd be amazed at how many I have just laying around). Some people will take that free die and buy a starter to go with it. or in a novice tournament, give them part of a kicker. American's love free stuff.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:54 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I should clarify how we "rig" the dice. First of all we setup the dice as you would get in a standard starter. So 18 health, two different races. Put all the commons in the horde, uncommons at the frontier, and rare/monster in the home. Put the Player's home at 5 or 6 (melee), the frontier at 4 (missile), and your home at 1 (magic). Now the way I rig the game is to make sure the dice I have at magic are not mages, the dice at the frontier are not archers, and the dice I have at melee are not heavies. While you don't want to load up the players with all the same dice for the armies, make sure there is at least 1-2 dice at each of the player's terrains that match how the terrain is going to start.

Then sit back and watch them kill a few of your units. That's all it really takes.
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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Jace Thomas
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:23 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, wow.. so much I'd like to say, not enough time to say it Very Happy (I have to go to work at 10:00 Confused )

First, and definitely most important, my sweet, sweet order arrived the other day! Actually, it was delivered on Wednesday, but I was spending the weekend at my friend's house (to pass the time until my Dragon Diceā„¢ arrived, naturally Wink ) and didn't get the message until late Thursday night. Of course, when I did get the message, we promptly dropped our rousing game of Gauntlet and got over to my house as fast as we could, grabbed up the heavy, rattly box, and brought it back so that we could tear it open.

Let me just say that I was overcome with joy when I was finally able to behold my purchase Smile I had ordered the set of Battlegrounds, and I must say that I am very, very impressed! Incredibly high quality and durability, but most importantly, the special coating (of rubber? I don't really know what it is, come to think of it! Laughing maybe it's on the box..) helped immensely. We didn't really have any table space prepared for the unexpected arrival of the dice, so we had to play on the carpet. Dice don't really roll well there Wink But they roll very well on the mat, no matter what the mat is lying on! Also, the art on the mat is very nice, to boot.

Anyways, since I had reserved one of each starter pack for myself, I decided that we would open a starter, play a match, then open the next one, etc. (chronologically starting with elves, then D/G>A/S>F/U) I didn't really have the demo/novice rules with me, as I wasn't at my house, so I kind of had to bumble along. We especially got a little lost when it came to starting troop placement (being completely inexperienced, don't really know how to distribute my forces, though I see now that Chuck put a good template just above this post) But it went well! I decided to just play as normal, but without magic, and we had a blast. It was very chaotic as the flow of battle shifted back and forth, which impressed my friend, who really didn't know anything about Dragon Diceā„¢.

We brought the next starter with us the next day when we went to a fast food restaurant, and busted out an intense match right there on the table. Apparently it was so intense, when my friend went to go to the bathroom, an elderly lady who had been waiting in line came up to me and asked me what we were playing Very Happy The allure of Dragon Diceā„¢ is strong, indeed! My friend was even more pumped this match because she chose goblins, and pulled some pretty good ones, including a Troll and a Rare Cavalry (Leopard Rider? I'm trying my best to memorize the dice Wink ) and swiftly enough, my dwarven Roc was decimated Sad

In the last few minutes before we parted ways, we decided to do one more match, this time with Amazons/Swampstalkers. And guess what? I chose Amazons, and EVERY single unit I got was a Magic user! Laughing Well, except for my Monster, Hydra, and one of my uncommons, which was a Light Melee. But still.. crazy. So instead of doing a real match, I decided to demo summoning a dragon, which we hadn't done before, and we had fun trying to slay it! Except that we didn't, and we got decimated by disease breath Wink

I just cannot wait to play more, but it will have to wait until my next weekend Sad I've got to go for now, but I read all the great posts from you guys, and I love the great information! I can't wait to try DDAssist Smile

P.S. - I need to find out who put together my Demo kit so that I can show my thanks Shocked Your generosity knows no bounds, especially concerning a certain.. Christmas-themed die. I am simply honored. I'd also like to ask if there was a certain rhyme or reason concerning the construction of the demo army, or if it was all random. Also.. thank you! Thanks a lot Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:03 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Demo armies are pretty much random. When they get put together, you are just grabbing the right number of each health without paying any attention to which type of die it is.
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You can never have too many dice.
First Place at the first ever Daemon Diceā„¢ sealed starter tournament.
Battlefest tied for first GenCon 2012
Single Race Champion GenCon 2008-2009, Sealed Box Champion GenCon 2007,2009,
My collection is 21,500 Dragon Diceā„¢, 20,000 Daemon Diceā„¢, and others (too many to count).
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Jace Thomas
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 8:06 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Hello! Reply with quote

dproman wrote:

Prior to the GameStorm convention, I had never demoed the game before, but by the time the weekend event was over I had successfully demoed the game at least 10 times!

He also had a DD flyer available (from his website) that I used as a "cue" card to keep me on track and to keep it simple.

PM me or call me to set up time if you want to get together. I don't mind the drive, or we can meet half way somewhere along I-5.


Wow, sounds like a very exciting convention! I hope that I can make it someday Smile I would love to learn how to demo from the pros, firsthand. Wink

Is that DD flyer still available? If so, might I ask for a link?

I'd be more than excited to meet up sometime, and sorry for not PMing you sooner, I've been a little busy lately. Just not enough hours in a day! If only I didn't have to sleep..

Jim Rayborn wrote:

heya Jace Thomas,
I suggest just leaving a few dice out...for the taking.

people like free things...


Hiya Jim! Wow, that's a great idea! I'll bet I'll have plenty of extra commons sitting around before long, and I'm absolutely sure that people who have never even heard of a collectible dice game would be ecstatic at the chance to stick a brightly colored common in their pocket! Very Happy

piMaster wrote:

Since you'll soon have a mountain of dice to keep track of, might I recommend you use DD Inventory to keep track of them.


Hi piMaster, and thanks for the warm welcome and excellent program! DD Inventory looks great and it makes me eager to fill up my Dragon Diceā„¢ collection Twisted Evil And I love the Shisen-Sho game, too! Quite innovative Wink

cliffwiggs wrote:
Most people like to win, but there are some who can tell you are losing on purpose and they will hate it. The young male hard-core gamer won't mind getting beat if he can see a dragon chomp him for 36 damage. Wink

At Gencon I try to give everyone a free common (you'd be amazed at how many I have just laying around). Some people will take that free die and buy a starter to go with it. or in a novice tournament, give them part of a kicker. American's love free stuff.


Ah, I see your point about losing. I don't want people to think that I'm deceitful or something by 'playing dumb' when they just want to have as much fun playing Dragon Diceā„¢ as I do! YES, I absolutely love how obscenely powerful Dragons can be, it's one of the greatest things about this game. (which I suppose should be obvious, given the name Smile) It's quite awe-inspiring!

Hmm, you may be on to something there.. it only makes sense that someone will want to buy a starter that matches their freebie. The power of suggestion, I suppose.

Also, do you think that you could clarify how much a 'part of a kicker' is exactly? Just curious Smile

chuckpint wrote:

I guess I should clarify how we "rig" the dice.


Thanks for this, Chuck, this is a HUGE help. I was actually going to ask about this, but you beat me to it! I cannot wait to put on some demos and try this out!
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cliffwiggs
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SDA - Rules NitPicker



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 10794
Location: Cumming, GA - USA

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:07 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jace Thomas wrote:

P.S. - I need to find out who put together my Demo kit so that I can show my thanks Shocked Your generosity knows no bounds, especially concerning a certain.. Christmas-themed die.


As Chuck said those kits are all random including the random die.
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