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Rate the Races
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DialFforFunky
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:05 pm GMT    Post subject: Rate the Races Reply with quote

The question is relatively straightforward: Rate the races in terms of game-power, from best to worst in the order of your choice. The answer can be as subjective as you wish, and an elaboration on your choices is much appreciated.


#1 - Feral:
The best schools of magic combined. Path + TRtM + wind walk = game finisher. Good racial spells, especially hide. Focused dice with a large amount of saves. Very good racial ability that even allows you to play monsters, and will have an impact almost every game. Racial benefits aren't tied to a terrain. Monsters are decent overall.

#2 - Treefolk: Very good racial abilities. The double maneuvers will probably affect just about any game, whereas the replanting is usually just a nice bonus. Magic is pretty good, TRtM and flash flood once again giving a good amount of board control. A lack of offensive magic is something that I miss though, and the protective spels are a bit excessive. Racial spells are ok. The dice are focused towards their tasks. The monsters are decent, with the exception of the unicorn, which is very good.

#3 - Undead: Their lack of a secondary school of magic is negated by a very good set of spells. Evil eye and night moves are especially interesting. Being death-magic only also makes their magic more focused because you'll never have to divide or plan around terrain colours. Something similar is true for their lack of missiles icons: it frees up space to make the dice do more of whatever you want them to do. SAI's are a bit poor on the rares. Racial ability is strong and like that of the feral, but the wrong way around, as large-health dice are harder to resurrect. Decent monsters.

#4 - Swamp Stalkers: Mire is an awesome spell. Their racial ability makes them very tough in a terrain that they like a lot.

#5 - Scalders: Very focused dice. Burning hands are pretty scary. Intangibility is nice, but not much more than that. I placed them 5th mainly because I've got a case of them incoming Mr. Green.

#6 - Dwarves: Good distribution, good racial ability. Too bad most dwarves don't actually seem to like the highlands (with 3 magic faces) that much though. Pretty lousy racial spells, but TRtM, path and dancing lights manage to balance it out.

#7 - Goblins: This race is saved by two gruesomely powerful dice and a decent racial ability. The amount of saves and the schools of magic are ok, as are the racial spells. But its all nothing to exceptional. And their distribution is pretty meh. As I don't like to rate a race for its exceptional dice too much, I put them at 7th place.

#8 - Fire Walkers: I should probably rate them higher than I do, but the fact that they have 4 'classes' that are pretty much useless kind of ruins it for me. Sure their mages are amazing, the fireshadow is godlike, they have a pretty nice spell list and a decent ability in the terrain flight, but still... Oh, and those flaming shields don't feel like they help out a lot.

#9 - Amazons: A bit of a one-trick-pony, but a very powerful trick none the less. Their mages have the feral magic mindset in their favored home, but everything else still is a bit akward around them. Diluted distribution is pretty ugly on some of the dice.

#10 - Lava Elves: Messy dice in terms of icon types (I do like uneven distributions though, but that's probably just me), little protection from harm outside highlands and spells that don't stand out too much. Not impressed.

#11 - Coral Elves: Horribly diluted dice that die if you'll look at them angrily anywhere else than at a coastland. Which means they are really not that flexible. Degenerate dragonkin can be pretty good, but the schools of magic don't synergise all that well.

#12 - Frostwings: Fly is supposed to be good. But if the rest of the die isn't willing to help out then you'll still won't be getting anywhere. Their racial ability is more of a disability than it is a power. Racial spells are ok-ish. I should probably place them at #11, but I wont.


I was surprised that there wasn't a topic about this already. It's been touched upon a couple of times in other topics, but I couldn't find one that was explicitly about comparing races, so I thought I'd make one.


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Katsu
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:55 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostwings,... NUMBER 12? .... :cry: *consoles his black and blue minions*
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:00 pm GMT    Post subject: Rate the Races Reply with quote

Each race is balanced, in my opinion. Each race has some dice that many players will feel are "better" than the others within that same race. I've seen all of them used in events and tournaments, which indicates that each race has found favor with some players. The "Introductions" topics in the Strategy forum goes over each race's abilities, dice, SAI's, and spells, and the things each seems to do well at. No one race is perfect, and each can find itself in a "dark alley" and get mugged under the right circumstances.

Now, having said all that, I think there are some armies that are easier for novice players to play and learn with, such as the Dwarves and Goblins, since their racial abilities are easy to remember and their spells are relatively easy to understand.

The dice that have the "coolest" appearance (in my opinion) are the older TSR Goblins, Firewalkers (especially in direct sunlight), and Undead. If the Feral had more of an appearance like the older TSR Flatlands terrain, then I would include them as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:28 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a good read DialF!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:41 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coral elves "die if you look at them angrily" ...that cracked me up Laughing .
my list would be:
1. Goblins- trolls and that 3pt maneuver unit nobody uses Rolling Eyes .
2. Firewalkers- Their ability to skip reserve has won me sooo many games.
3. Dwarves- Although weakened by the deletion of "Charging" , theres just something about mammoth riders (little hairy guys on big hairy elephants) that is too cool.
4. Feral- hard to keep dead, nuf said.
5. Undead- 2nd hardest to keep dead, nuf said.
6. Treefolk- hard to keep what you want dead, nuff said.
7. Lava elves- very synergistic magic.
8. Swampies- nothing like terrorizing your opponents reserves.
9. Coral elves- kick butt with missiles.
10. Scalders- like their color and racial abilities,when i field my 3 unseelies Cool the oooos and aaahs are awesome.
11. Frostwing- racial abilities suck, but their magic combo is deadly.
12 Amazons- very conditional race, if youre able to choose the frontier then they can rock! found their magic to be weak though (they should be able to use magic items in reserves--call it "Witchcraft"and make it a racial ability.)
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:14 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think the Amazon racial abilities aren't much, try holding a couple of Medusas in reserve.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:15 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I dont see how frost wings are not listed around 5th. They dont lack move or saves, their magic is decent, not the best but.... Obviously real good ranged and their melee is not the worst. Just consider that most races, broken down by class, are either lacking movement or saves (possibly both)n and these guys dont have that issue, virtually immune to Transmute, which Dial ranked for number one. They are balanced die and in my opinion are more up there in rank.

Though I hate Feral I certainly too, put them at # 1. Their units have the best lay out of icons hands down, as stated even the monsters are nicely put together. Goblins deserve respect though as they have survived the original 4 strongly.

As far as corals being down at the bottom I am gonna disagree. I think maybe some of you put no stock into defensive playing, I feel I have a good strat for them and I could work a field with them just fine. Their mages are the only mages that are fit for superior reserve magic rolls in that they can really help more than most races can from there.

Undead are good, they are my favorite and I agree with that ranking.

Tree folk lack saves, I think an aggressive spell caster would maim them. I think they should be below the firewalkers in that Terrain flight is rediculous allowing them to get setup in 1 turn and further more magic seems to be key in this game and they have what it takes in that dept. I recognize their mages, too, lack saves but w/terrain flight that is defensive enough.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:16 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skawilly wrote:
I recognize their mages, too, lack saves but w/terrain flight that is defensive enough.
As long as they get to take the first turn, otherwise the mages will be all dead before they can fly away.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:27 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am gonna say this about UD SAI's which I forgot to rebuke in my post. They are too amazing. They are certainly unlike that of any other race but wither/convert are awesome.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:32 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skawilly wrote:
I am gonna say this about UD SAI's which I forgot to rebuke in my post. They are too amazing. They are certainly unlike that of any other race but wither/convert are awesome.
which shows that everyone is different because many people don't like them Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:30 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! This topic is brining up some very interesting stuff!

@ eggsaladsandwich:
Great that you made a list as well! I'm curious about the very synergistic magic from the lava elves though. Necromantic wave is a terrific spell that goes great with some army compositions, but that's about all I can find. Am I missing something?

@ skawilly:
I never realised the part that they are virtually immume to transmute. That is a definite strength. But I dislike dice that try to do more than 3 things at once. Sure enough, fly gives you an extra face to choose from. But on the other hand most dice save, melee, missile and maneuver. I dont like to missile with melee units or vice versa. Nor do I want to missile with my mages. For unless you can make focused attacks on an opponent, the attack is often just saved easily.
But you seem to have experience with these guys. Does it come up often that these extra 'out-of-class' faces help out?

Nice to see you hate feral too Smile

And about the undead SAI's: convert can be amazing indeed. Can. but people tend to like dice that save. Not only that, but keeping some dice in the DUA is often a good thing for undead. As for wither, I feel it's a smite that doesn't actually do damage. It has it's uses, but to me it just lacks punch. As for scare... ugh.


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Last edited by DialFforFunky on Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:31 am GMT; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:55 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Egg,
Fact 1: Scare is bawls.
Fact 2: having one face on frostwing that does missle is bawls.
Fact 3: Wither has no punch

But my rebuke to the frost wing is that MOST races have 1 face on them that is bawls, but as to wither, its nothing short of a smite in that 3 of my hits are gonna further get through along w/weakening your counter attack as well hurting your manuevers for your next march and yet again hurting your next action.

Furthermore you DONT need a dead unit for convert to kill, it will just turn into a "Kick" at that point. I mean, everyone loves wild growth right? Convert > Wild growth in melee.

Oh and as far as Lava magic being synergistic, as it was worded, w/undead they are amazing.

Lastly, the only experience I have w/frost wing is that I never fought against them before this monday so I got smashed the first round, then the 2nd round was mine as I adapted. I dont own any dice outside of Lava Elves or Undead to be honest, less some Coral Elves. I keep em around just because but I have never played them despite developing strats for them.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:28 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

DialFforFunky wrote:
@ eggsaladsandwich:
Great that you made a list as well! I'm curious about the very synergistic magic from the lava elves though. Necromantic wave is a terrific spell that goes great with some army compositions, but that's about all I can find. Am I missing something?


open grave/burning hands is a great combo for going toe to toe at a terrain. ashes to ashes keeps theirs dead while spark of life keeps yours up. Dancing lights and finger of death oh my. Black and red are the top two when it comes to offensive magic..and I have not won many games playing defence..hit em hard, hit em fast. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:10 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah man, when it comes to aggressive magic blue is the top. Black and red or more like curses unless your a scalder. In a multiplayer game scalders are the MOST hardcore race ever. 5 ash storms and then an eruption? REDICULOUS.

Hail storm is super sweet for taking out certain races' classes. Lightning strike of course. I mean, I respect the large amount of spells in red that are aggressive however they are mainly per race. Finger of Death is the ONLY direct damage black spell and its 16 pts of mana for a monster.
I guess w/lava elves its cool since that was the topic, whom have fearful flames.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:28 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I know about the "weak" Frosties is that my younger son won a National title with them (and he had to beat Dan Burkley to do it!).
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:40 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddicerc wrote:
All I know about the "weak" Frosties is that my younger son won a National title with them (and he had to beat Dan Burkley to do it!).


Word.
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:33 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Rate the Races Reply with quote

DialFforFunky wrote:


#11 - Coral Elves: Horribly diluted dice that die if you'll look at them angrily anywhere else than at a coastland.



Never had an army of knights lead by an eagle knight drop in on ya huh?
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:48 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coral Elves are bomb. If you have horsemen and knights put in with 2 heralds and a Tako/coral giant on a coastland youll never get them out, and their mages actually are real nice in reserves so as to to help get an 8th very easily, then to bring the mages to it. I honestly feel that Corals are one of the better races.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:31 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though some of the coral-elf dice are pretty good (the herald and the knight are probably my favorite), most of them are pretty ugly. I do not want ranged icons on my heavy melee, I do not want a light melee common with equal melee/ranged icons and I do not like ranged units trying to attack my opponent with sword. They lack focus, and thus will probably fail to achieve anything outside their field of expertise.
Add to that the fact that most of the coral elves sie to a stiff breeze outside of their homelands (and therefore will most likely struggle in capturing a second 8th face) and not even all dice make that much of their racial power, and you'll be left with only a few very good dice in some (for most) very specialized situations. That might be good, but I don't believe any race is without this sort of dice.
Apart from that, green magic is still pretty 'meh'. Though it is true that the blue/green combination is decent from reserves, I don't like magic cast from reserves that much either, as you'll simply miss out on both board presence and doubling magic. I do like blizzard, bloat corpses and degenerate dragonkin. Oddly enough, these seem more like late game control spells, which in my opinion conflicts with their pretty aggressive icon distribution.

Keep in mind though: most of this is armchair analysis, which is highly subjective and quite possibly inaccurate at all times.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:06 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coral Elves just require a touch of detail to their build. You really have to sit and think just what you want each die to be able to do and focus on groups that are effective within the coast and outside. Magically they have a great set of support spells that are cheap making them effective from reserves. But when you have that eight face a group of mages (or a squad of pixies as I prefer) doubling and dropping lightning on those though to kill dice in an opponents army can really turn the tide.
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