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Champion questions
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:45 am GMT    Post subject: Champion questions Reply with quote

Are there any advantages for taking a hunter over a slayer, or a master over a lord? I mean they are there to effect and defend against dragons, the colorless ones are simply it. to say a 2 pt. face ID matters I dunno. The other thing, I read them and their logos I could not find anything about them being immune to that breath color, is that gone?
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:51 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's right in the description of the Dragonslayer and Dragonhunter on page 27 of the rules:
Quote:
Armies with Dragonslayers in them cannot promote units when they defeat a dragon. The Dragonslayer is immune to all dragon and Dragonkin breaths. Furthermore, it extends this immunity to the rest of the army it is with and all individual units within that army.
Quote:
Armies with Dragonhunters in them cannot promote units when they defeat a dragon of the same color. The Dragonhunters are immune to breath from dragons and Dragonkin of the same color. Furthermore, they extend this immunity to their army and all other units in it.

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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 12:09 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I simply dont know how I missed it, I apologize. Here is a question for you, do the Crusaders and Lords (colorless champions) cause "resist fear" to the colored dragonkin?
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 12:23 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

note: they aren't colorless (assuming you mean the whites), they are actually all colors.

and a 2pt ID vs a dead face (except on individual rolls) is a huge deal to many people. so if you value that, it would be why you choose one over the other.
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:54 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, I figured out how I missed the "Immunity to breath attacks". I just now found out that only the Slayers/huters have that power, and the Lords/Masters are listed first and I assumed they all had it. I just wanted to clear that up.

But about the 2 pt. ID on the non-white die, can they be killed by impale/decapitate when their sfr/tsr's come up?
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piMaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:00 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skawilly wrote:
But about the 2 pt. ID on the non-white die, can they be killed by impale/decapitate when their sfr/tsr's come up?

The SFR/TSR Logo face is not an ID icon, it is an SAI which acts like an ID. Thus, impale, decapitate, and so on have no effect when the logo face is rolled.
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:01 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about slay or scare? How does that effect it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:02 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

piMaster wrote:
The SFR/TSR Logo face is not an ID icon, it is an SAI which acts like an ID. Thus, impale, decapitate, and so on have no effect when the logo face is rolled.
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:04 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted that 2nd part right as you posted, sorry. But this brings me back to a post I asked a little while ago about adding up magic pts. If its not a face ID, but an SAI that acts as a face ID, then they would A: Not be negatable, and B: Count as 2 pts. of magic, which I was told they are not SAI's at the point being rolled outside of a dragon attack, that they are face ID's.

I mean, either way you go with what it is there is a significant meaning behind it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:04 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I should probably expand upon that.

The logo face is like Create Fireminions, except when casting magic (in which the logo face has an additional effect (it could be doubled)).
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:26 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The logo is considered a 2-point ID on the 'masters, 'hunters, and 'zealots. It is not therefore a magic-producing icon, but an ID-like icon." - Chuck Pint

I just feel that this clarification is important. Either its an SAI that counts as a face ID and PiMaster says, or its a standard face ID aside from it only being 2 pts. as Mr. Pint says.

I appreciate the follow up answers.

Will
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piMaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:30 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the wording of the logo SAIs should be altered to make it more clear.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:34 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every SAI is most definitely its own rule, followed by a set of generic rules. I agree with you though on this one. Because both directions have in fact effected my game play. Until Mr. Pint said they DONT count as 2 pts. of magic I was counting it as 2 pts. as it were. Then impale did come up on that and I let it go but certainly its one or the other. I appreciate your feed back.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:35 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

"ID-like" is not saying it's an ID. It's a SAI that acts like an ID, in so far as doubling magic is concerned. It is not an ID. I'm going to say that again. It is not an ID.
Quote:
During any roll, the SFR logo counts as a two point ID icon and as such may be doubled to produce magic of its own color.

Note it says: "counts as a two point ID icon". It does not say "it is a two point ID". Big difference.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:38 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

So then, it can be adjusted by dancing lights/Ash Storms? Or as SAIs go its immune?
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:40 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

The comment about being a 2-point magic icon was about the rule for maximum health of mages in your army. It does not count as a "magic-producing" icon because it is "like" an ID. It's a bit of a fine point, but an important one.

In any case, that's exactly why it's written the way it is. So that it can generate any normal results and be doubled like an ID, but not be an ID.
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piMaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:41 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rules wrote:
What is important to note is any result (normal or special) generated by an SAI, cannot be modified by spells, other SAIs or dragon breath.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:47 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well whatever, you guys are cool and I keep buying dice.
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 11:15 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick question honestly.

"The Dragonslayer is immune
to all dragon and Dragonkin breaths."

Just thinking about the reasons behind this, as each color hunter is immune to their color of breath and Slayers are all colors, does this mean they are also immune to ivory breath, as it is the absence of color? I know the rule is clear, just curious.

On a similar note, white dragons rules state that only white eldarim effect them, does this also constitute the breath immunity for the color champions?
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:11 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dragonslayers are immune to all breaths, which includes ivory.

White dragons can only be targeted by the effects of the white Eldarim champions (slaying, taming, and control). Breaths, however, are not part of the dragon itself; they're more like an SAI effect. If a dragonhunter matches one of the colors of the white dragon's breath, then that color is negated, though the rest will get thru.
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