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Coral Elves are slightly too powerful!
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:53 pm GMT    Post subject: Coral Elves are slightly too powerful! Reply with quote

I am just throwing this out there because I truly believe they are over powered. (No No, I am not looking for them to change, I just wanna say this here).

No race and no strat is perfect, and if I played them there is no way I would post this information. BUT....

I dont see much in the way of fault with these guys. They have a great color scheme for magic. I feel the only people who claim them to be weak are inexperienced. Sure sure, they are good at ranged but that is completely irrelevant. They have 2 very good strats and either way you go its easy to win.

The issue is that their magic is great from reserves. Ill give you the most overpowered strat ever.

Setup:
18 pts of calv, avoiding any trash results (i.e. ranged or magic) Stick to moves/saves/melee icons as much as possible in that order.
18 pts. of mages

Weather you win the horde roll or not is also not important, if you get 2 coastlands your just as good but its not necessarily bad, try to go first though if you do win.

Strat:

First round move down the enemy home terrain and move everyone to reserves (ALWAYS REACT PROPERLY, I cannot be there to see if maybe you should be leaving stragglers behind for who knows what this is just in general).

Second round, depending on where the terrain die have landed move all your calv out to the highest face available coastland.

Then for the next of rounds simply res and windwalk your way to the 8th face, casting watery doubles and walls of ice along the way, they will never die and will always be quick. No TrtM will stop them nothing anyone can do. (Yes no need to correct me about single unit targeting, they will be ressed by the mages in reserves).

Finally when your at your 8th face move your calv to the next open spot and mages to the 8th face rinse and repeat.

Summary:
DONT attack at all, dont be aggressive, why would you? Its a free game victory and its ridiculous. Just ignore them and win.

Alternate versions of this strat does not work for Swamp Stalkers or Lava Elves, as their reserve magic is not great for this.
I am going to now see responses saying what about this or that and its countered by this and that. I bet if you randomly played this setup over a month of time you will win 9/10 times.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:13 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

They do that really well in the Coastland. However, it depends on how the terrains land. If two come up high, they are in trouble. If you can kill them fast enough, the mages can't bring them back. So heavy units with Smite and Counter will give them trouble. Red magic will kill them. One Dancing Lights on the mages in reserves will shut them down hard. Throw in a few Palsies just for fun if you can.
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:14 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will also add this, Undead and Feral can both also do this effectively but not nearly as well as corals, as they get their moves to be saves and the watery double out-does stoneskin as well as open grave, but also they get the option of wall of ice.
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:16 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, no doubt there are counters to this Mr. Pint. And NO ONE is safe from a bad start of the terrain die. Its just a real hard strat to move around.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:18 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can say that having an Swamp Stalker army to fight would have fun with your reserves. Not tomention they can cast mire to buy them time. Mix that in with a bit of burrying your units you ill be sunk.

And A good Frostwing army will dampen your magic pretty quick. Its not as fool proof as you might think. Very Happy
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Skawilly
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:55 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alrighty then Denim, whats your poison? I see that you posted here:
http://sfr-inc.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2752
You prefer Feral, though thats a few months back, has things changed?

To be honest I find Feral to be rather dubious.
Chuck Pint described them VERY well, though, on that thread. The feral light melee is soooooo good, just replace any light melee rares with buffalo and your good to go. Great saves quick enough and good magic combination. Feral are definitely up there in quality.

Thing about Feral is that they have it all in their units, magic combo is great and can cover any aspect of every strat nicely, though Mr. Pint may disagree, they have a decent ranged strat too that uses only ~6 pts. of magic worth of units. (I devised it myself)

Still Feral are all in the reaction. I think coral elves take only a few inches of understanding and the rest is smooth sailing. They are the perfect race in my opinion. To be honest, I would have not exactly worded it that way but they were givin' a bury spell so its just rough. Their magic is aggressive as they want it to be, defensive as they need it to be and Coral Giants on a coastland produce 70% saves, 70% melee and 40% movement, its gnarly. That last tid bit is just icing on said cake.

EDIT: I want to add one more smidge of information that just came to me. They can put coast land everywhere and only other corals will get advantage, aside from terrain flight. Their terrain is unique to them and that just adds to their fun.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:47 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct that i do favor Feral. However I tend to admire all facets of each race. Last night i even thought of a goblin defense against your tactic. Cast Soiled ground, when at a melee face and just attack you any of your units die have a chance to be buried instantly which would keep you from bringing them back. Not to mention treefolk who could just set up some wall of thorns in addition to their double manuevers when defending. Lots of ways to pick off those pesky Corals Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:30 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skawilly wrote:
I think coral elves take only a few inches of understanding and the rest is smooth sailing.

Nice choice of words for a race that uses sailboats for maneuvers.

I think it's nice to see that you like coral elves this much, as I get the impression that they are one of the least popular races around. The strategy you developed seems pretty solid, and some armies will certainly struggle against it.
But rating the coral elves as slightly too powerful is certainly an overstatement, especially if that statement is based upon a single strategy. To add to that, I think the strategy is far from being too powerful, as it has a few big weaknesses as well. Here are a few:
- faster armies: they'll simply choose terrains and let you take first turn, as your offensive capacities are not that big. Getting a second 8th will be much harder without a second coastland.
- dragons: again because of the lack of proper offensive capacities, you'll struggle to get rid of dragons. They might not hurt much on normal results, but breaths still hurt a lot, and they'll probably stick around long enough to cause a few of those.
- spells: there are still a good deal of spells that hurt you. TRtM is especially painful as it robs you both of saves and maneuvers. The previously mentioned wall of thorns, mire and dancing lights hurt quite a bit as well. A smart opponent could also pump his army full of burning hands for a turn or 2, as there is little pressure forcing him to attack every round.
- armies that turn up 2 terrains: as your army is focused on only a third of the board, and has little interaction with the other 2/3 of the board, any army that puts pressure on the other two is going to cause problems.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:04 am GMT    Post subject: Re: Coral Elves are slightly too powerful! Reply with quote

Skawilly wrote:
I bet if you randomly played this setup over a month of time you will win 9/10 times.


I'll take that bet.

Head to head online game? your coral elves vs my (whatever)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:54 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah Dial.... So much to say.

A: First off you dont need 2 coastlands, once the mages get to their 8th face they are now doubling in magic enough to create many a watery double/wall of ice/wind walks.

B: Dragon Breath hurts anyone and if you make a good calv unit you could easily come up with 10 dmg. to that 8th face, Heralds/Knights/Coral Giants are GREAT for this strat. Quick, saves and melee no trash faces. They should be able to douse a dragon.

C: Spells will effect anyone, however TrtM will not effect the windwalks or waterys/Walls of ice. Dancing lights is brutal, but again effects anyone. (As I stated there is no way to get 100% of strats going but these guys can do it the majority of the time)

D: If you leave about half of your non mages on either of the terrains that your not going for, just keep it on ranged if they are not ranged or melee if they are ranged (Again react accordingly, no one else can hold your hand) but just casting windwalks on them and not making a march your good to go. the other half move it up to your 8th face.

Sorry Mr. Wiggs I just cannot get into online games, furthermore I would hate to see a strat get countered by an anti strat, thats no fun. It has to be randomly played and unexpected as any thing should.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:55 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skawilly wrote:

Sorry Mr. Wiggs I just cannot get into online games, furthermore I would hate to see a strat get countered by an anti strat, thats no fun. It has to be randomly played and unexpected as any thing should.


Smile can we expect to see you at Gencon then Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:59 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooner or later I am going to meet you Mr. Wiggs, and I am gonna kick your tail. That goes for Mr. Pint and Mr. Raybourn as well. I think I can make it out next year but its so far out nothing is certain. (To GenCon I mean)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:01 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be worth having my tail kicked to get to meet another player.

I had plenty of practice at it this year in battlefest.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:02 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
It would be worth having my tail kicked to get to meet another player.

I had plenty of practice at it this year in battlefest.


Even after 7 Rends in a row and 41 points of damage... Razz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:06 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matthias Maccabeus wrote:
cliffwiggs wrote:
It would be worth having my tail kicked to get to meet another player.

I had plenty of practice at it this year in battlefest.


Even after 7 Rends in a row and 41 points of damage... Razz
you were the game i did the best in. the terrains came up high. All my other games had every terrain on 3 or below. I never stood a chance.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:10 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cliffwiggs wrote:
Matthias Maccabeus wrote:
cliffwiggs wrote:
It would be worth having my tail kicked to get to meet another player.

I had plenty of practice at it this year in battlefest.


Even after 7 Rends in a row and 41 points of damage... Razz
you were the game i did the best in. the terrains came up high. All my other games had every terrain on 3 or below. I never stood a chance.


Only reason I won that was because my dragons were nice to me.

(Well the whole Gold Medallion, Regenerate thing helped too...)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:11 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont forget Firewalkers, you will met at Most Tournaments, and they are real Coral Elf killers.
In a Coral Elf/Firewalker Game all Terrains will Be blue, a Big advantage for Firewalkers.
They can Negate Magic, and are fast enough to turn the Terrain to the sides they need. And at least with Fireshadows they must Not Fear Coral Giants
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:11 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow dudes, sounds to me like I should've made it out there! I missed a good one.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:17 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

What?

I'm a target?

Geesh...

Ok Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:17 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skawilly wrote:
Wow dudes, sounds to me like I should've made it out there! I missed a good one.
He played very well (he won worlds after all). I had almost half his army dead and he was able to bring them all back.
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