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Diggity's Revenge!
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diggity60503
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Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 369
Location: Aurora, Illinois

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:26 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

We know that:

I can promote the Zombie to Wight #1 (that's fine since it's my 8th face bonus).

And are agreed that:

1. In taking my 18 damage, the following could occur:
Minor Death stepped down to Mummy in DUA (which accounts for 4 damage).
Lich stepped down to Wight #2 in DUA (which accounts for 3 damage).
Wight #1 stepped down to Zombie in DUA (which accounts for 2 damage)

Since all units present at the time off the dragon attack absorbed damage, the remaining 9 damage is "wasted".

DUA now contains (after the dragon attack) Minor Death, Lich, Wight and Apparition.
_________________
465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212
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DialFforFunky
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Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 1955
Location: Groningen

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:46 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

So this is the board after the Dragon Attack?

Turn Sequence: DialFforFunky, Diggity60503

Turn 11

************************************************************************
DialFforFunky
BUA
DialFforFunky
DUA
DialFforFunky
Reserve Army
DialFforFunky
Summoning Pool
*
DialFforFunky

*Stoneskin*
DialFforFunky
DialFforFunky
Home Army

*Stoneskin* x 2
Diggity60503's Home

Funky's 8th

*Deadlands*
Frontier


Diggity's 8th
DialFforFunky's Home

(City)
Diggity60503
Home Army
Diggity60503
Diggity60503

*Palsy* x 3
*
Diggity60503
Reserve Army
Diggity60503
Summoning Pool
Diggity60503
DUA
Diggity60503
BUA

TRtM = Transmute Rock to Mud


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diggity60503
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:32 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright...

Finish resolving Dragon Attack:
Medallion: Wayfare: Minor Death and Medallion to my Horde
Stepped Damage for Lich down to Wight from DUA
Stepped Damage for Wight down to Zombie from DUA

• First March: My Horde @ Your Home
Maneuver: Yes: Mummy (3)...negated by Palsy...
Action: Melee:
Minor Death #1: Slay: Target Wardog Rider
Minor Death #2: Slay: Target Wardog Rider
Medallion: Logo: Bring 4-health back from DUA: Mummy #2 (3) and Wraith (1) (do I get to roll them for Melee?)
Mummy #1: Melee (4)
Heucava: Melee (2)
Apparition: Magic
Skeleton: Save
(If the Mummy #2 gets to roll: Wither (3); Wraith: Maneuver)

• Second March: Campaign Army @ Frontier
Maneuver: None
Action: Magic:
Wight: ID Icon (2)
Zombie: ID Icon (1)
Double Magic to 6 for units in DUA: Cast Palsy x2 on your Home Army



• Reserve Phase: None
• Spell and effect expiration: None
_________________
465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 1955
Location: Groningen

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:33 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so just to be sure: my update above is incorrect as the Minor Death did not die. Instead, it went to my home along with the Medallion, and the Mummy at the frontier is in the DUA.

Counter Maneuver (I will have to roll, just in case I might get 0):

Result: I get 20 (I'll skip the images for this one)


You do get to roll the units brought back with the medallion, so I get to save against 2 slays, then against (6 - 3) melee with a -3 modifier.

Save rolls vs Slays:


Result: Silly Wardog Riders, you need Ids not shields... Both die.

Save vs 3 melee:



Result: 1 - 3 (Wither) = 0, 0 + 2 (Stonekin) = 2, so I take one damage. One Wardog Rider dies.

Counterattack:




Result: 4 - 3 (Wither) = 1 melee...


F

Edit: it might be advisable to cast Restless Dead on your own army rather than Palsy on mine - at least, when maneuvers are concerned. The Palsies will stop 4 maneuver at max, but if I roll less then 5 maneuvers (undoubled) then the remaining modifier will go to waste. The Restless Dead will give you the same difference as the Palsies will have at best, but without any risks. You could even add an Evil eye (or burial) with the remaining 2 magic.

Edit 2: board at this moment (before 2nd march)


Turn Sequence: DialFforFunky, Diggity60503

Turn 11

************************************************************************
DialFforFunky
BUA
DialFforFunky
DUA
DialFforFunky
Reserve Army
DialFforFunky
Summoning Pool
*
DialFforFunky

*Stoneskin*
DialFforFunky
DialFforFunky
Home Army

*Stoneskin* x 2
*Wither* x 3
Diggity60503's Home

Funky's 8th

*Deadlands*
Frontier


Diggity's 8th
DialFforFunky's Home

(City)
Diggity60503
Home Army
Diggity60503
Diggity60503

*Palsy* x 3
*
Diggity60503
Reserve Army
Diggity60503
Summoning Pool
Diggity60503
DUA
Diggity60503
BUA

TRtM = Transmute Rock to Mud


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diggity60503
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:40 pm GMT    Post subject: Proofread Reply with quote

Yes, I decided for one last stand at your home and sent the Medallion and Minor Death there.

It worked out pretty well until I stupidly typed Slay instead of Plague

For the Minor Deaths, I didn't roll a pair of Slays. I rolled a pair of Plagues.

Now generically, I'd understand if you don't want to reroll your defense against my Plagues.

As for the spells that you recommended I switch, at this point, I'm content to live with my mistake.

As DM (Dice Master), I'm content to live with whatever ruling you want to make.
_________________
465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 1955
Location: Groningen

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:25 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its ok, I just rerolled for the plagues, and it turns out that it would have killed a Wardog Rider and a Mugger instead of two Wardog Riders. This would have made such a small difference that I think it will be easier if we just let it be as it is right now.

As for the spells: you are very welcome to change it, as it was my recommendation to begin with Smile.

Oh, and don't forget that you still have 1 melee incoming... Crying or Very sad


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diggity60503
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Joined: 09 May 2013
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Location: Aurora, Illinois

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:45 pm GMT    Post subject: Reformat Computer Reply with quote

Sorry that I have not been on...computer crashed and needed a total reformatting Evil or Very Mad

Will get back to the game tonight.

Thanks.
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465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
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diggity60503
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:00 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save Roll against your Counter Attack:

Medallion: TSR Logo: Bring Lich up to Horde Army @ your Home
Minor Death #1: Maneuver
Minor Death #2: Plague (no effect)
Mummy #1 & #2: Melee (4)
Heucava: ID Icon: 2 Save
Wraith: ID Icon: 1 Save
Apparition: ID Icon: 1 Save
Skeleton: Melee (1)

Total Saves (4) - Palsy (3): net 1 good save versus Counter Attack

Lich from DUA rolls Cantrip (4): Cast Restless Dead on My Horde @ your Home (assuming I don't get to double that (only adding 2 from the Wight remaining in the DUA)). If I do get to add those two Magic, I'll cast Evil Eye on your Home Army.

That should cover my response to your Counter Attack.

Before I make Retreat/Reinforce where does the board stand? Thanks.
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465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212
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DialFforFunky
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:39 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This should be the board right now:

Turn Sequence: DialFforFunky, Diggity60503

Turn 11

************************************************************************
DialFforFunky
BUA
DialFforFunky
DUA
DialFforFunky
Reserve Army
DialFforFunky
Summoning Pool
*
DialFforFunky

*Stoneskin*
DialFforFunky
DialFforFunky
Home Army

*Stoneskin* x 2
*Wither* x 3
Diggity60503's Home

Funky's 8th

*Deadlands*
Frontier


Diggity's 8th
DialFforFunky's Home

(City)
Diggity60503
Home Army
Diggity60503
Diggity60503

*Palsy* x 3
*Restless Dead* x 2
*
Diggity60503
Reserve Army
Diggity60503
Summoning Pool
Diggity60503
DUA
Diggity60503
BUA

TRtM = Transmute Rock to Mud


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diggity60503
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:35 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the long tiem in response...

I'll leave everybody where they are. No Reserve Movement.

Your turn...
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465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
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DialFforFunky
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:17 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

My day was unexpectedly busy, so I didn't get the chance to post my turn. I'm off to bed now, but I'll take the proper time for my turn tomorrow.


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diggity60503
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:48 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries...I'll look forward to an interesting next turn...
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465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
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Final Count 1212
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DialFforFunky
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Joined: 11 May 2010
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Location: Groningen

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:07 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

  • Spell and effect expiration: Stoneskins ans Palsies expire
  • Initial Effects Phase: none
  • Dragon Attack Phase: none


  • First March: @ your home
    Maneuver: no
    Action: magic



    Result: 14 magic. I'm afraid this will be a rather unceremonious end to the great struggle we had the last few turns...

    8 black - Finger of Death on your Wight at the frontier
    4 black - Finger of Death on your Zombie at the frontier
    2 gold - Stoneskin on my army at your home

    This leaves the 8th unmanned, which causes it to automatically turn back up to 7.

  • Second March: I have little hope of winning the maneuver at my home, so I'll skip this march entirely.


  • Reserve Phase:
    Reinforce: none
    Retreat: all my units at my home move to reserves
  • Spell and effect expiration: none

End my turn

Now my hope lies entirely in you not rolling too many Ids...


Turn Sequence: DialFforFunky, Diggity60503

Turn 12

************************************************************************
DialFforFunky
BUA
DialFforFunky
DUA
DialFforFunky
Reserve Army
DialFforFunky
Summoning Pool
*
DialFforFunky

*Stoneskin*
DialFforFunky
DialFforFunky
Home Army
Diggity60503's Home

Funky's 8th

*Deadlands*
Frontier


(City)
DialFforFunky's Home

(City)
Diggity60503
Home Army
Diggity60503
Diggity60503
*
Diggity60503
Reserve Army
Diggity60503
Summoning Pool
Diggity60503
DUA
Diggity60503
BUA

TRtM = Transmute Rock to Mud


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diggity60503
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:59 am GMT    Post subject: Question... Reply with quote

I need a clarification before moving forward...

There are now three lonely and presumably hungry dragons hanging around the city.

Do they keep hanging out hoping for a Goblin King, or McUndead to open and bring them fresh customers?

Also, I think Undead should be immune to Dragons. Maybe not all of them, but the Skeletons are just bones and the Apparitions are just that. I can see them feeding on a Zombie (although I would think the "meat" would be spoiled) not to mention the aftertaste with all that blood from a Vampire.

Very Happy
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465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 1955
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:46 pm GMT    Post subject: Re: Question... Reply with quote

diggity60503 wrote:
Do they keep hanging out hoping for a Goblin King, or McUndead to open and bring them fresh customers?


Yup, they stay there until summoned away or slain.

diggity60503 wrote:
Also, I think Undead should be immune to Dragons. Maybe not all of them, but the Skeletons are just bones and the Apparitions are just that. I can see them feeding on a Zombie (although I would think the "meat" would be spoiled) not to mention the aftertaste with all that blood from a Vampire.


And yet - perhaps a good corpse is like a bottle of wine that has to ripen before it acquires its full taste... (I could almost believe this, as I think the taste of alcohol is horrible).

(also, I can't imagine Muck Monsters, Mudmen, Chimeras or Redwood to be all that tasty to a Dragon...)


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diggity60503
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:04 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just leaving work on a Sunday night...home with fast food for me and the wife and then late to take my turn.

I am absolutely riveted with what's going to happen next and how this game is going to finish.

I have some guesses. Cool
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465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212
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diggity60503
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:31 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

• Spell and effect expiration: Restless Dead Expires
• Initial Effects Phase: None
• Dragon Attack Phase: None

• First March: My Horde Army @ your Home
Maneuver: Maneuver up to 8
Action: Magic
Lich: ID Icon (3)
Mummy: ID Icon (3)
Skeleton: ID Icon (1)
Apparition: Magic (1)

Medallion: Flurry
Minor Death #1: Slay
Minor Death #2: Melee
Mummy: Melee
Heucava: Save
Wraith: Maneuver

7 Icons: Doubled to 14 for Undead DUA Bonus +1: 15 Magic (finally)
Cast Finger of Death x3 on 3 of your Wardog Riders in Reserve: 12pts
Cast Fade on Minor Death #1

• Second March: None
Maneuver:
Action:
• Reserve Phase: Move Mummy #1 & #2, Medallion, Wraith and Minor Death (with Fade) to Reserve
Reinforce:
Retreat:
• Spell and effect expiration: none

End my turn
_________________
465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 1955
Location: Groningen

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:01 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though a clash of armies underneath poisonous clouds that are spat out by a trio of black dragons sounds pretty neat, I'm afraid it will be slightly less epic than that. I blame it on the sneaky nature of gold magic though...

My thirteenth turn:

  • Spell and effect expiration: Stoneskin expires
  • Initial Effects Phase: none
  • Dragon Attack Phase: none


  • First March: @ your home
    Maneuver: no
    Action: Magic



    Result: 15 magic, after doubling for black

    4 gold - Path one of my Hedge Wizard over to the frontier
    The rest of the magic is used to create spectacular fireworks.


  • Second March: @ the frontier
    Maneuver: yes, unopposed to 8


With two 8th under my controle, I win! Yay!


Thanks for another good game, I hope you enjoyed it as well! As usual, I'll spill my ramblings in a day or two.



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diggity60503
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:50 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was waiting for Path...I had expected it on the turn before rather than Finger of Death.

I had considered with my 15 magic sending two dragons to your Horde Army at My Home hoping that they might create enough havoc to not permit you to be able to cast Path.

Generally, I think I've been too passive in both games letting you hang about and cast Magic at will.

Though capturing 8th at my home was crazy good for you because it gave you access to 4 colors of magic (5 when you grabbed the black).

Though, I had stupidly bad rolls in turns of generating Magic from my Undead while enjoying a lot of benefit from some of the worst dragons ever summoned and a hyper good medallion.

One thing, I strongly disagree with though is the rules not permitting for a roll of the dice when being unopposed for a maneuver. My objection has teeth in the single instance that if I am allowed to roll for the maneuver on my last turn and I generate a Wayfare with it, I can get to the Frontier Terrain and have the same opportunity to win as you do using Path.

Similarly, even if an opponent didn't care if the terrain couldn't go up or down, but wanted to avoid the possibility of the opponent gaining the benefit of some SAI, they could avoid it by not opposing the maneuver.

Thoughts?
_________________
465 dice and counting...
now 641 and counting...(the wife isn't suspicious yet)...06/05/13
649...6/12/13
Might have an actual addiction...die 1000 Gold Speed Slipper...07/04/13
Final Count 1212
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DialFforFunky
rare



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 1955
Location: Groningen

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:05 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, I want to compliment you once again on the nice improvements you made! Even though it didn't result in a win just yet, this game was pretty close at some pivotal moments, and you displayed some solid insight into the game. Excellent! Cool

I mostly agree with your conclusions about my mages. My Hedge Wizards put up a stellar performance, with only one roll that wasn't 'that good', and none that was completely bad. They have everything I want in a mage, icon-wise: a few saves, a few maneuvers, and loads of magic icons. Their unhindered casting allowed me to stay in the the game through Open Graves. I have a renewed respect for this spell, as it single-handedly counters any non-SAI-based melee strategy.
I do thing that there wasn't much you could have done to stop my mages from casting at the swamps though. The double maneuvers really wiped out the already slim chance for your somewhat movement-impaired Undead to outmaneuver me. But you did ok though: you kept the pressure on for my army at your home, forcing me to keep investing or lose significant parts my army.
The thing you could have gone for after I reached my 8th was to use it as a kind of death-trap: go all-in, bring in most of your forces and try to out-melee me. The Medallion is great for this purpose, as it has such a good chance of generating loads of melee as well as returning your troops to the battlefield. The Mummies are also excellent for this type of 'siege-warfare', as Wither provides twice its effect against icons that should be doubled. And, to some extent, the Minor Death was also pretty good for a siege, though it was countered out a bit by the fact that my force only consisted of commons and uncommons.
Now, you pretty much did this already. There was one issue though, an issue which occurred throughout the game: you mixed up your support and your main force. This board kind of shows it: your Lich, Heucuva and Apparitions are brawling at your home, while the Mummies, Minor Death and Medallion are at the frontier trying (and mostly failing) to cast spells. In situations like this I think it is ok to send most, if not all of your forces to reserves to redistribute them the next turn.

About the Wayfare: heh, so you noticed me playing around that... Twisted Evil. Yeah, I can understand that it is kind of annoying. Then again, SAIs like these are already quite powerful, so this current incarnation of the rules is probably better balance-wise. It also adds a tactical decision to the game, something which I don't think is bad.
From a fluff-perspective, I can imagine it being unnecessary to operate a great magical artefact during a relatively ordinary march of an army, nor would you force an entire army to move only to activate your magical item. Then again, such fluff-interpretations are fairly subjective and easy to counter with a bit of imagination.

I also wanted to point a few things out about your army-composition. First of all - the mages, the 'support'-part of your army. This part is tasked, most importantly, with bringing back your troops. You only have 7 points, 11 if you count the medallion as support as well. Generally speaking, that is a bit on the low end (even if Undead can cope moderately well). Realizing this helps setting expectations of what your forces can do, which in turn helps you to plan your future turns more effectively. So, for instance, if we look at this game, though I admit that you had some lousy magic rolls, great magic rolls weren't really to be expected.
Now, this set-up can be perfectly ok. You could use the small force of mages to fix up the dents and chips your larger chunk of raw force would receive. However, as a general rule, the less mages/revive stuff you bring, the more aggressive you'll be forced to play. In the long run, you'll lose to armies that bring back their dice quicker. This means that you will have to be in their face and at their terrain most of the time. Though this can viable, it is often a hard route to take. It is probably a good thing to remind yourself that it requires a specific mindset that does not allow sitting back and comfortably taking advantages of safe positions - something which I personally still find quite hard to do.
So the main point I guess I'm trying to make is: be aware of what you can reasonably expect from your forces, and plan accordingly, both mentally and board-wise.

Another thing I found interesting was your choice for a Coastland. Again, this might be a (somewhat) viable option if you decide to abandon it all together, and want to provide an uninteresting option for your opponents (frontier towers are great for this). But in this game I think it mainly made your Undead cry because of the 4 missile icons, and not even a standing stones to cheer them up when they finally did reach that 8th (the city turned out to be solid though). A second wasteland might have been a nicer option. Another terrain which I think is great for Undead is the Feylands, as there isn't any race that receives a racial bonus tied to that terrain. Also, it only has a single missile face, meaning you'll be almost guaranteed to take an action you'll like.

A few other random notes: Again I'm impressed with the Undeads ability to fight on. I'm not certain how to value this power just yet, but it is impressive none the less. This was especially true for the few Undead clinging on to the Frontier 8th despite the fact that they were being harassed by 3 dragons. Being able to take a million damage and still only step down, all the while retaining the 8th is certainly a neat trick. Resist burial is slightly underwhelming. Plague is scary, glad I brought commons and dragonkin.


Finally, a few random thoughts about my own army: Wow, those Hedge Mages are silly good. Perhaps among the best mages in the game, and most certainly better than the 18 Tricksters I had in my previous version. My horde was very fast, but other than that it felt like it didn't really do all that much. Perhaps speed is enough, though I might as well exchange a few Muggers for Thugs. Choosing to go for attrition and turning the terrain down the first turn was certainly a bad move. I almost had an opportunity to try out Reform Land, but sadly didn't take it, as for a second I confused Revolt and Landslide.
Oh, and dragons can be stupid. Very, very stupid.


F

edit: oh wow. My ramblings keep getting longer and longer...
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