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PureBred Abilities
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:32 am GMT    Post subject: PureBred Abilities Reply with quote

So... This is just a place holder to stimulate conversation for now.

The Rot and Frost abilities are locked, but the others have a small window to be tweaked.

Personally the one ones I'm iffy on are Death and Wraith (the two minus oriented ones).

But we must be careful not to make them too strong. As an absurd Example, if Death were five minuses, then I would play nothing but Death Lungs. There is a tipping point.

So I wouldn't make either any more than 'two', but is that necessary or is 'one' sufficent?

What would make you choose to play that type, what would make you hate to play against that type?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:44 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to make sure we are all looking at the same thing:
Quote:
Blood daemon (Red plastic/black ink):
A blood daemon doesn't just enjoy seeing arterial spray; they sustain them selves by drinking it! For each attack that causes a wound, recover a stunned body part after all the victims’ damage has been suffered. Note: This is in addition to anything recovered via a Mouth.

Death daemon (Black plastic/yellow ink):
Death claims all things in the end, one just needs eternal patience to be victorious! During each turn, a death daemon gets an automatic targeted minus. During your foe’s next turn, you get to apply this minus to your choice of the foe's dice prior to the non-targeted minuses!

Fester daemon (Yellow plastic/red ink):
Fester daemons are covered in blisters so swollen with vile pus that they burst when wounded! Each attack that causes a wound inflicts a stun damage against the attacker which is taken immediately after all the fester daemon’s damage has been suffered.

Fire daemon (Red plastic/yellow ink):
When fighting against fire, a slight graze can burn and scorch your flesh! Each turn, one stun damage from a fire daemon's undefended attacks becomes a wound instead.

Stench daemon (Yellow plastic/black ink):
The foul odor of a stench daemon is so strong it can stun by itself! This is treated as a stun attack that cannot be defended (via dodge, block, deflect, Shell, etc.) or modified (via Spike, Brain, plus, etc.) and is suffered as normal.

Wraith daemon (Blue plastic/red ink):
It is hard to get an advantageous position against a foe that can fade out of existence! During each turn, a wraith daemon may ignore the effects of one non-targeted minus.
Note the comment in Stench; if we change Shell, Buckler, and Shield, that comment gets much simpler.
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piMaster
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:56 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wraith would be better if you could ignore the minuses generated by any one die.

I think Death is fairly good as is.

Blood is pretty situational. I'm not really sure how it stacks up to the rest of them.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:04 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

piMaster wrote:
Wraith would be better if you could ignore the minuses generated by any one die.
Are you proposing any die? i.e. including a Wing? and if so what would be your timing. Just that the ability comes first?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:28 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes any die, so the timing would have to be between Activate Dice and Apply Targeted Minuses.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:24 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

A comment about the wording of the abilities:
Please make sure that the wording is consistant and unambiguous regarding whether or not using the ability is optional.

For example, Wraith says "a wraith daemon may ignore..." which is obviously optional (though I cannot imagine why you wouldn't want to use it). Death, however, says "you get to apply". Does that "get" mean that using the automatic minus is optional or is it just a conversational way to describe a manditory power?

The ones that seem questionable are Rot and Death.
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:16 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

An excellent point.

This is Rot currently:
Quote:

At the end of each of its turns, the rot daemon can select one body part in the defending daemon’s stun pool and make it rot, turning it into a wounded die!


The key word here is "can", that seems optional to me. do you disagree?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:21 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't disagree that it sounds like its optional. Is that the intention? If so, then use the same word for all optional powers ("may" seems like a good choice).
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cliffwiggs
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:26 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck, is there still time to change this for the printed ones?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:52 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing has been printed yet.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:54 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's go ahead and change the 'can' in the Rot ability to 'may' just to be consistent then. Its a little thing, but easy enough to do.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:38 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question about Fester/Blood.

They both use the phrase "for each attack that causes a wound". Does that include secondary effects as well? For example:

- Poison injected by a stinger or dart. The poison is not the attack, but it does cause a wound. Would the poison trigger a Fester/Blood daemon's ability?

- Fire daemon ability transforms one stun damage into a wound. But technically this would seem to happen after the damage is taken (as a stun), so would this trigger a Fester/Blood daemon's ability?

I'm assuming that "causes a wound" means that the attack had to actually send a die to the wound pool for the ability to activate - unlike the mouth or stinger where it simply has to be undefended. Correct?

If a brain-guided attack wounds an item, would Blood/Fester abilities still activate? The flavor text would seem to indicate not (how can a fester sword be filled with vile pus?), but flavor text is not rules.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:31 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI - I haven't reviewed these in a while, but when I do I'll look at these questions and respond. I have a few things that are higher on my list todo list.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:27 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. My thoughts on those questions are:

Only wounded body parts should activate Blood/Fester ability. Fire ability probably should. Poison I would say not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:34 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Changing it to: "for each attack/ability that causes a body part to be wounded" would not be too bad. That phase would imply that poison would also trigger the ability. I don't have a problem with that.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:03 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck, have you posted that version of the document anywhere? I want to make sure I'm using the most current when i do review them.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:34 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not touched the booster rules in quite a while. The starter rules are current.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:27 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, I see. I read your previous post as 'changed' not 'changing'. an important distinction. mybad.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:57 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckpint wrote:

Stench daemon (Yellow plastic/black ink):
The foul odor of a stench daemon is so strong it can stun by itself! This is treated as a stun attack that cannot be defended (via dodge, block, deflect, Shell, etc.) or modified (via Spike, Brain, plus, etc.) and is suffered as normal.

Note the comment in Stench; if we change Shell, Buckler, and Shield, that comment gets much simpler.
How would you make it simpler? just remove the first parenthetical?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:40 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had some time to look over this and review the history since the last posted version. Here is a list of the changes I think we should make or need discussion.

Wraith - targeting a die would make it stronger, but not overpowering and no reason to make it optional. I propose:
Quote:

Wraith daemon (Blue plastic/red ink):
It is hard to get an advantageous position against a foe that can fade out of existence! At the begining of each turn, a wraith daemon ignores the minusing effects of one die, even a Wing!

Does that make the timing clear that it is prior to the target of the wing being declared?

Death - it shouldn't be optional. both instances of the word 'get' should be replaced. I propose:
Quote:

Death daemon (Black plastic/yellow ink):
Death claims all things in the end, one just needs eternal patience to be victorious! During each turn, a death daemon generates an automatic targeted minus. During your foe’s next turn, apply this minus to your choice of the foe's dice prior to the non-targeted minuses!

Since Wraith specifically says 'die', the Wraith can not choose to ignore a Death minus.

Stench - Chuck mentioned simpler wording based on changing Shell. All we can do is remove the parenthetical (and insert a comma)... I propose:
Quote:

Stench daemon (Yellow plastic/black ink):
The foul odor of a stench daemon is so strong it can stun by itself! This is treated as a stun attack that cannot be defended or modified, and is suffered as normal.

Is that clear enough?

Items and Breed - As a larger item than just blood/fester and fire/frost The BOD discussed this before that items logically shouldn't affect breed abilities. However, we have the product and can't just ignore the colors. So either we leave it as is or we define different abilities for items.
If we leave it as is, then that means that someone with all Death body parts, but one fire sword can't be considered a death daemon and the fire sword isn't on fire. It also means that if you are half items, then those items define your immunity which makes no sense.
If we change it, then it means defining new (very simple) abilities for every type of item which will always be active and have to be remembered. it also means that I could be a pureblood from a single body die if everything else was items.

I think that this needs a separate discussion and we can finalize the booster rules w/o it based on how we were careful to write them and the starter rules to not mention items at all. The Breed section of the starter rules doesn't call out the term 'body part' but does mention flesh and blood. So we could imply that this means body parts should we choose to change this and we could clarify Frost to be from body parts. I'm beginning to think we might want to do this or atleast talk it through. I'll start a new thread for this with a proposal.

Poison/Fire/Rot on Blood/Fester Activation - I think that Fire should. I think that poison should. My gut was that Rot should not, but it is cleaner if you do. Also using the word 'ability' leaves this open so any future effects that cause a wound would trigger these. Proposed:

Quote:

Blood daemon (Red plastic/black ink):
A blood daemon doesn't just enjoy seeing arterial spray; they sustain themselves by drinking it! Each attack/ability that causes a body part to be wounded recovers a stunned body part after all the victims’ damage has been suffered.
Note: This is in addition to anything recovered via a Mouth.

Fester daemon (Yellow plastic/red ink):
Fester daemons are covered in blisters so swollen with vile pus that they burst when wounded! Each attack/ability that causes a body part to be wounded inflicts a stun damage against the attacker which is taken immediately after all the fester daemon’s damage has been suffered.

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