SFR, Inc. Forum Index SFR, Inc.
Forums that relate to SFR products
 
 Watched TopicsWatched Topics   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Question about game development

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SFR, Inc. Forum Index -> Game Strategy
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Guizo
dragonfoal



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 5
Location: Porto Alegre, RS

brazil.gif
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:08 pm GMT    Post subject: Question about game development Reply with quote

Hi,

After playing maybe 10-15 games of Dragon Diceâ„¢ with two friends (all of them three-player) we are starting to have the impression that quite a few matches tend to develop in a very similar way to each other. I have a Lava Elves army based around rare mages and rare and uncommon missile units. One of my friends is using a mixed Coral Elves and Goblins army, and my other friend is using a mixed Dwarves army. After we learned the rules, the matches seem to go like this:

1) We assemble our armies in very large armies
2) We try as hard as we can to capture an eight face with a tower (there is always plenty of those)
3) Because there are quite a few towers around, we get to capture one tower each
4) From then on it's mostly magic to bring back dead units and heavy missile action. Whoever gets the best rolls win.

Dragons are not really an issue, because with 30 points of health assembled in a single terrain it is relatively easy to kill them. Splitting armies is basically out of the question, because since our other two opponents don't do it, it would be suicidal to do it. And we rarely get to see any melee action. This is particularly puzzling to me, since melee is discussed as a quite efficient strategy here in the forums.

I don't really know how to formulate a question, but maybe it could be worded more or less like this: are we overlooking something that could make our matches more varied and unpredictable? One of my friends insists on saying that the rules of the game basically force you to assemble large armies (you get more hits and more saves and dragon attacks stop being a problem) and to avoid melee whenever possible (why would you want to face a counterattack?). I don't really know how to reply to that, because every time I won the game I had a large army safely using missile attacks and casting magic from a safe distance.

Any comments will be much appreciated.

Best regards!
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message
cliffwiggs
SFR Treasurer
Chief Wheedler
SDA - Rules NitPicker



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 10746
Location: Cumming, GA - USA

usa.gif
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:55 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

From this description it's hard to know if you are playing all the rules correctly or not.

However, I do know that if you play the same armies with the same people then they will tend to follow established patterns. That is true with any game. But let me try to address your points...

'must make one large army' - So I'll assume that you are doing setup properly with three armies and are talking about the second or third turn where you pool your units into one massive army. I agree that this is a strategy, but I don't agree that this is forced or required by the game. Yes a single army get generate more results simply because it has more dice rolling, but you only get to take one action per turn. Any game that you can min/max in will give you overwhelming power in that one area, but you are a one trick pony and weak in all others. So the game becomes a coin flip.

'Lots of towers' - My guess here is that you are playing with a random assortment of dice and not constructed armies. if could be that the random dice you got in your sets are more missile heavy and not as much magic or melee. This is a pre-construction game, so you have the opportunity to design your army.

'always missile' - So in addition to needing to do more direct damage via melee, you should use your magic more effectively. Specifically spells which halve missile results. But you may have to construct your army with mages to be able to do this effectively.

'avoid melee' - It all depends on construction, but if you knew your opponent was going to pool on an 8th face and shoot missiles at you, then I would take my army and go attack him in melee BEFORE he gets the 8th face. Sometimes you lose the game two lose turns before you think you do, when you give your opponent a strength that you shouldn't. I've seen lots of players give up an 8th face not realizing the power they are giving to a missile heavy army.

'don't invite counter attack' - If you are a 'weaker' army, then yes you shouldn't invite someone to slap you down, but this game favors the bold person who attacks first. If I can attack first and kill some of your units, then you have a smaller army to attack me back with. melee vs melee, I would always attack first because of this.

not to repeat myself, but I think that if you play with the same armies every time, then you will get the same results. Just like if you were playing MtG with random cards. You have to make a strategy and construct towards it.

I know I wandered a little there, but I hope that these thoughts helped. This game has a lot of depth and options, but you can't see all of them out of just a few starters. You have to construct for them.
_________________
Multiplayer Champion Gencon11/Battlefest Champion(tied) GenCon10/World Champion GenCon07/National Champion Origins05/Intermediate Champion GenCon02/Novice Champion Origins99
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message
syntaxerror111
dragonmount



Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 42
Location: Iowa

usa.gif
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:14 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am by no means an expert, but I will give it a go anyways:

The advantage of splitting your forces into two groups is that you can take two marches each turn. Here are some examples of how that can be used:

-Keeping even one unit at an uncontested terrain allows you to march it up each turn, which will necessitate a response from your opponent or gain you a painless 8th face.

-Sending mages into reserve allows you to cast supporting magic on your main force, making their efforts more effective. In addition, they can bring back dead units to fight another day.

-Better yet, having mages at a terrain allows you to double ID magic results for matching colors and enables you to cast offensive magic, including spells that halve missile results (try dancing lights).

And why is melee is important? In order to capture an 8th face you will pass through melee on at least two faces. If you have a melee-oriented army and your opponent doesn't, you can make short work of their forces. In addition, some of the most powerful SAIs are for melee combat: Rend, Smite, Counter, etc. Counter-attacks simply speed up the process, so you can capitalize on a melee advantage faster than missile.

I recommend trying a highland standing stones for your Lava Elf Mages. Once captured it will give you access to gold magic, which is very powerful.

I hope this helps!
_________________
-Fortune favors the bald
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message
Dolus
rare



Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 1251
Location: San Diego, CA

usa.gif
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:39 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cliff already answered this excellently, and syntax added some good points as well.

I'll reiterate what Cliff said, it sounds like you and your friends' current strategies are the current meta-game. It's common to all games, especially constructed games like Dragon Diceâ„¢ and M:tG. For example, if you build a missile army, missile will be one obvious strategy. It is usually difficult to see alternative or better strategies until a strategy comes into the group and shakes things up.

1) We assemble our armies in very large armies
As Cliff mentioned, one massive army will get great results. But if your army is half missile and half magic, they won't get great missile and great magic results. You'll probably be better off to separate them into two separate armies. It's not uncommon to leave your magic army in reserves to cast buffs on your missile (or other offensive) army.

Having two armies also allows you two marches, which is what would allow you to do both magic and missile, for instance. If you bunch everybody up into one army, you can only do one march and have to choose between one march type. And generally, it will be decided by whatever face you are currently at.

2) We try as hard as we can to capture an eight face with a tower (there is always plenty of those)

So it sounds like you guys are playing with 3 towers. I don't know if that's cause that is the strategy you guys have chosen for yourselves, or if it's because those are the only terrain available to you at the moment. One suggestion is to bring a different terrain for your home, something that's not a tower. If there are fewer than 3 towers, than not everybody will be able to gain an 8th face. Now, attack somebody else's home. One weakness missile units have is that they have to trudge through all those melee faces before reaching the 8th face which has a tower. Make it harder by not maneuvering the die up close to the 8th (or taking the 8 yourself if they bring it up to 7). You could even more the die down if there are enough melee faces on the die. And if you are a melee focused army, just attack! Missile units are also generally poorer at saves, and will suffer more casualties, as well as be very bad at counterattacks. Many light melee units also have the Counter SAI, which makes it very risky for your opponent to attack or counter attack you. You'll be able to wipe out many of his units before he gets to an 8th face.

3) Because there are quite a few towers around, we get to capture one tower each

Again, try to add something other than a tower for your home, and instead of trying to take an uncontested tower, stop somebody else from taking a tower and wipe out their army with melee in the meantime.

4) From then on it's mostly magic to bring back dead units and heavy missile action. Whoever gets the best rolls win.

Cliff already suggested magic to halve missile results. There are other useful spells too. One thought for the goblin/coral elf army is to have everything at your 8th face and roll for magic. If you get sufficient results, cast multiple Transmute Rock to Muds on an opponent, Flash Flood to turn down the terrain value, and path a unit over to the terrain. With enough TRtM spells, if they don't have any maneuver SAIs (based on the armies you described, they probably don't), they'll likely produce 0 results of maneuver, lose their 8th face, and then you can take your second march to maneuver it up to the 8th yourself and win with 2 8th faces.

More importantly, use magic to bury your opponents pieces. If you can use focused magic such as lightning bolt or targeted Bullseye results to hit their key dice (either their magic units that are reviving their dead, or their powerful archers, etc.), and then follow up with a second march of mages to bury those units before they can be revived. That will give you an advantage.
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Guizo
dragonfoal



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 5
Location: Porto Alegre, RS

brazil.gif
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:11 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your thorough answers. I will take some time to wrap my head around everything that has been said, and it will be at least a week before I can play again and follow up with the results. But let me clarify some of the assumptions made in the reply:

1) "It looks like you are playing with random dice because you do not have enough dice to actually be able to pick dice and construct armies from." That is partly true. I have maybe around 120 dice with 8 races, so, except for the Lava Elves which are quite specialized (mages and missile units, mostly), the rest is kind of a random mess. One of my friends gets to build his army with the dice I do not use, and our other friend is playing with an army assembled from a Battle Box plus some other spare dice, which seems bad - but he got two or three goblin heavy troopers which wreak quite a bit of havoc. I have myself made the same analogy with MtG saying that we are not playing what we want to play, but rather playing the best we can do with what we have (which may not be that good).

2) "I am not sure you are playing the rules correctly." It is true we are in doubt sometimes, but I do not believe we are seriously misplaying the game. I have read the manual about four times and whenever a question crops up I write it down to check it for the next game session. The ones I could not solve by just reading the manual were already posted and duly answered here at the forum. Smile

3) "Melee is good because that is the only face you are 100% sure everyone will need to go through before anyone reaches an eighth face." I had myself thought of that. The problem is, I do not have a number of good melee units which would allow me to base an army on that. I am waiting for a reasonable number of kicker packs in the post, so I might have that solved in a little while.

4) Flash Flood and other magical tips: this is the one part of the game I feel we are really missing out on. We must not have understood how they can really affect the game, because other than summoning dragons and reviving the dead, every time we roll for magic and check the spell list we go "meh" because we feel most spells are way too expensive to do what they do. I will take a close look at the spell list and try to think of uses for it.

Thanks averyone and if you have further comments, bring them on!
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message
Dolus
rare



Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 1251
Location: San Diego, CA

usa.gif
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:53 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, spells can be powerful, but it's not easy to fully understand their significance until you see it in action.

If you have a lot of magic rare units, I've had success using a magic army in melee battles as well. It's a big risk, but if you roll cantrips when making an attack (or counterattack), you can cast Necromantic Wave.
Back to top
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SFR, Inc. Forum Index -> Game Strategy All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group